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SOV - T-26 s vežou z tanku BT-2

SU-37 improvizácia obrancov Leningradu

Diskuse
Version of the T-26 with a tower from the tank BT-2. More information?


* photo of model T-26 with BT-2 tower:
park15.wakwak.com
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#102393Version : 0
MOD
In the single-tower version, the 37mm cannon was used much later during the blockade of Leningrad, when allegedly several turrets from BT-2 tanks with these cannons were mounted on T-26 chassis and served as self-propelled guns (towers were probably not rotatable) about these machines are only unfortunately I did not see the pieces and the photo (if any).


This SHD should allegedly be a BT-2 turret (the older one, which resembles a machine gun and is equipped with a 37 mm cannon) and the chassis should be from a two-tower version of the T-26. But even Russian sources mention this version only marginally.


I also have a model built Smile but I'm not 100% convinced about the reality of the version Sad
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#102367Version : 0
The whole model is weird.
- The hull is pattern 1931-32 (twin-tower) by the overhead running board, but pattern 1935 and later (single-tower) by the reflector cover (not present on the 1931) and gearbox door (appearing in this shape only in 1935-36).
- On the model is a turret with a 37 mm B-3 gun and a sloping hatch on the DT, the production of which ended in 1933 (9 years before the blockade) - cannibalism of the BT-2?.
- The turret wreath didn't match, or it was welded (gauge +-0). If they were aiming with the whole tank, how were they going to hit anything with it? With a 122 mm cannon, some meter doesn't matter, but with a 37 mm?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317263Version : 0
MOD
The fact that the model is a knock-off is due to the fact that it is based on the original Polish 7TP, which was modified to be a bit like the T-26. This version is mentioned, but I still haven't come across a photo, what chassis it would be on is not at all certain, there is speculation that it was a twin turret version, but it is speculation, the top plate with turret bed and the turret itself should be transferred from the damaged BT-2, so it should be rotatable. Whether this version actually existed is uncertain, of course a lot of unusual things were produced in Leningrad, whether this one was produced I can't guess. As a model it is interesting, nothing more to say Smile
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317265Version : 0
If the ceiling with the wreath was from BT-2, the tower would be in the middle and probably still missing it at the edges.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317271Version : 0
MOD
Quite known are T-26 with additional armour (several versions) from around Leningrad and deployment of SU-26 around Karelia,..but I haven't seen a photo of this machine anywhere.
Maybe try asking the model manufacturer where he took the source material?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317277Version : 0
I think the BT is narrower at the top than the T-26, so its top plate would have to be original to at least part of the top plate and the turret would really be to the side. But in the model it overhangs to the left so that's quite strange.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317278Version : 0
Gentlemen,
I found out that the plastic kit is made by two Polish companies: Mirage Hobby and RPM. The model is supposedly a conversion of a 1931 T-26 twin-tower tank into a gun self-propelled tank with turret from a BT-2 tank.


From the accompanying documentation of the RPM product No. 35003 I learned that the self-propelled gun with the name: Djeti Ljeningrada (Деети Леенинграда), had a turret incapable of rotation, i.e. fixedly welded to the hull.


I have not been able to find out any further information about this improvisation.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317312Version : 0
MOD
In the TTD instructions it says Crew - 3 people. How did they fit (or what was the third person there for)? And if the turret was welded, then what I wrote above applies - it can hit smaller villages from 500 meters or it is suitable for scaring starlings.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317317Version : 0
MOD
I know the instructions for the kit of course, both kits are the same and it's about trying to get as many types as possible from the original mould. Very questionable remarks can be found in Russian-language literature, but there I haven't come across how the turret is added, here it can be a manufacturer's invention. usually it is just a sentence that in Leningrad different versions were built on existing tanks, among them T-26 with BT-2 turret. Usually nothing more than that, not even that the turret was gun turret, I have never come across a photo or a source for this information. Personally, I would guess that it could have been a memoirist and the question is whether it was a worker from the factory where the conversions were done or someone who fought and remembered years later what was around him.
As far as I know the cannon in the turret had a sight of several degrees, so it wasn't so much untargeted fire even when the turret was fixed, just like in the Hetzer, the general direction was by machine and the gunner was already aiming accurately with the cannon (the range was certainly not great, but even 3-4 degrees to each side should be enough to take out machine guns and such, which would support the infantry) Personal opinion Smile somewhat doubt it existed, if it did then probably in one piece, the Poles as far as I remember released a whole series and it was really an attempt to beat the crap out of the 7TP moulds, it was always the same original base and a shortrun conversion part to it with a much different finish, different rivets and pretty much unsuccessful.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317321Version : 0
According to my information, the range of the cannon's bore at the tower of Ing.Molostanov on BT-2 was +-0. Do you have others?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317364Version : 0
MOD
No, I judge so from the shape of the cannon mask, if the gauge was zero then there was no sense to put the cannon cover to the sides (it corresponds to the cover moving) but maybe the comrades made a mistake somewhere. Personally I don't really believe in this conversion, so the last time I considered it was about 12 years ago when I was building the model Smile, because despite all the photos that have appeared since then (and there are many) not a single one has appeared where this machine is depicted, I am quite skeptical about its real existence. Even for the NI machines built in Odessa there are a few photos and the fighting in Odessa was shorter, I'm not saying this modification couldn't have existed, but personally I don't put much faith in it. If the cannon was really immobile in the horizontal plane, it doesn't make any sense at all. It was impossible to aim, the cannon's performance was poor even for the time, and a turret on a fixed post would probably have worked better than one on a chassis. But these are considerations from the point of view of today and at rest, how it was in Leningrad during the blockade is of course something completely different. By the way, were there any BT units in that area at all ? I mean was it even realistic to get that turret ? There were KV tanks being produced in Leningrad as far as I know, BT was originally in Kharkov and so it probably wasn't left over from the factory, if it existed there must have been some (or some) BT to get there, I'm not sure if there were in the photos from Leningrad I haven't spotted them (but I haven't really looked for them either). Let's see what Jirka Tintěra finds Smile
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317366Version : 0
Kolpino is a short distance southeast of Leningrad. I think there was a front somewhere near it during the blockade. But the production of these towers ended 9 years ago (before the blockade), so more like cannibalism. Of course, if the machine existed, which I doubt.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317368Version : 0
MOD
Source for the table below:
Ilya Moschansky: V osadje - Djejstvija Ljeningradskogo i Volchovskogo frontov, p. 41, Voennaya ljetopis′, Moscow 2008, ISBN nemá
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317370Version : 0
MOD
Summary
In the text of the attached photocopies, renowned Russian historians pp. Kolomijec and Svirin that they have failed to find out how the Leningrad autocannons with 37 mm gun looked like. Therefore, I dare to consider the products of Polish and Russian plastics companies as a mere idea of one of many possible forms of these improvised self-propelled guns.


The original appearance of the towed version of the 37 mm PTP fig. 1930 g. can be found at https://www.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/p/289805


Source
Maksim Kolomijec, Mikhail Svirin: T-26 - mašiny na jego bazje, Frontovaja iljustracija 2003, No. 4, pages 68 and 69, ISBN 5-901266-01-3
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317403Version : 0
MOD
I propose to keep the topic, but move its content to War - discussion >> Weapons. A final summary should be made in this topic to the effect that although there are mentions of a machine with a 37mm gun, but there is no relevant data so far on what this modification looked like.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317408Version : 0
MOD
I agree, what the thing looked like is not yet known and the speculation has no proper basis, it should be as brano writes
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317428Version : 0
Dear colleagues,
I have received some answers to my questions from my friend Barjatinsky. One of them concerned the alleged Leningrad conversion of the T-26 tank with BT-2 turret, and was very brief:aaaaaa]"Что касается установки башни БТ-2 на Т-26, то это фантазия."


Decrypting the message
The model of a self-propelled gun with turret from a BT-2 tank is pure fantasy.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317847Version : 0
MOD
Jirka, that's what I thought from the beginning Smile but it looks interesting as a model Smile
The other thing is that this thing is written about, it is mentioned, though always very sparingly, and laconically. My very personal opinion, unsupported by any photo, is that it was something in the "Marder" style, similar to what was made for 76,2 mm calibre guns, but fitted with a different weapon. Theoretically a smaller shield could have been used but I would rather believe it was no different. Does your colleague know the number of conversions with the 37 mm gun ?
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317866Version : 0
Honor,
Soviet wartime improvisations and the Marder are well known. I also assume that those mythical cars with T-26 tank chassis were a kind of "popular military creativity". According to the war diary of the 124th Tank Brigade, this happened in at least two cases with guns of the following type: 37 mm anti-tank cannon, fig. 1930 g. (37-мм противотанковая пушка обр. 1930 г.),


Whether these improvisations were successful in combat will probably remain an unanswered question. Because according to the above Russian studies, their combat viability was minimal and if I understand the Russian language correctly, the improvised self-propelled guns were destroyed on 20.02.1942 during the fighting in the area of Vinyagolov (район Виняголово).


P. S..
The above-mentioned Russian historian did not deal with the question of Leningrad improvisations with 37 mm calibre, but referred me to the studies of Messrs Svirin and Kolomyets.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317875Version : 0
MOD
Thanks, I knew that 37mm guns were used but I wasn't sure of the type, so not a tank version but a normal old infantry PTK, it fits the "Marder" style quite clearly. The durability was probably really minimal, an anti-tank rifle was probably enough for similar improvisations. i think like the "NI tanks" it was more of a morale booster than any kind of fighting force.
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317879Version : 0

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Dovolím si malé OT ke stavebnici a předloze:D


RPM je v modelářském žargonu známo jako Robeno Podla Mňa Very HappyVery Happy
URL : https://www.valka.cz/SOV-T-26-s-vezou-z-tanku-BT-2-t523#317893Version : 0